Gino & Joe Vannelli - A Family Affair
By Oliver Cauvin - Keyboards #37, October 1990

Since 1973, Gino Vannelli have recorded 10 major albums, some of them produced with the help of Ross, their other brother. Being at ease in jazz, jazz rock, symphonic and now, FM rock. Their sound and moods are instantly recognizable, due mostly to their use of synths.

As a preview to their first European tour, and in France in November and December 1990, they reveal themselves to Keyboards.

You were among the first to use synths in song writing and arranging. What made you go in that direction?

Joe: As a piano player, keyboards always interested me. It was Gino's idea to use synths. We had very little to work with in 1973 and we did our best with what we had. But when I see what's around today, it's incredible! Keyboards are becoming more and more important now.

Is the exclusive use of synths a good thing in your opinion?

Joe: It depends on how it's done, the people behind it all and the way they use this new instrument.

I agree completely! In the past few albums, 'Black Cars' for example, you get the impression that you've only used Yamahas. Was that the case?

Joe: You're not the first one to say that, but they're not the main instruments, if you can believe it. We mostly used Memorymoogs on 'Black Cars'.

MIDIfied?

Joe: I don't remember using that much MIDI 1984. In fact, almost everything was recorded live on that album. Sequencers weren't as sophisticated as they are now, and I only used a QX1 to get the the songs ready, and it was a pain to program!

The only MIDI instrument we used on 'Black Cars' was a DX7 and the only sequencer was a Roland (which I don't remember the specs), for a drum roll. We use them more often now.

What decided you to use the new technology, when you had such a warm sound with Prophets or Oberheims?

Joe: It's true we used Oberheims then, but we were looking for new sounds. When we heard the digital sounds, we were amazed by their clearness and definition. Analog sounds are great, but they all sound the same.

And you don't get that impression with digital sounds?

Joe: It all depends on the arranging. We've tried using both recently. In general, we use analog synths for what we call texture pads for warmer sounds, and digital synths for bell-type sounds or sounds that need a certain edge.

Why did you sample Jimmy Haslip's bass instead of having him play on 'Inconsolable Man'?

Joe: (laughs) Jimmy was so busy that he only had a few days for us. Since he has such a nice sound, I asked him if I could sample some.

These samples were combined with synths so they wouldn't look too artificial. Samples often sound horrible because the same note is triggered different ways. It lacks expression.

You've tried for a long time to mix synths with acoustic instruments. The violins on 'Pauper In Paradise' for example come to mind. Who came up with the idea?

Joe: The B side on that album is essentially made of real strings. My brother had written that piece a long time before. We'd just made two albums with a lot of synths and we thought it would be a different way of working. We left for London and hooked up with Don Sebesky for the orchestration. I remember Gino playing the themes on piano and Don writing the notes as we were going along. We didn't even record him a demo!

We started by recording the synths for the A side, then the third movement for the B side and overdubbed the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. We'll play a song from that album on this tour and we'll use computers to program the strings with the Kurzweill. I think people will be surprised by how real it will sound. We've been working on this tour for over a month and there will be a lot of MIDI.

Will you sample the sounds directly from the master tapes?

Joe: No. I already have the sounds, since I've made them. We'll use the computers for all program changes and to help us between songs.

Can you define your roles in producing, songwriting and arranging?

Joe: Gino is better placed to answer that question.

Gino: It's hard to explain a process that looks like chemistry, but I'll try! Let's take for example 'Moment To Moment' or 'If I Should Lose This Love'. In essence, I write the songs, and we try to see in studio what they're all about. We work hand in hand, go forward, then back, try new ideas and erase them. If I choose not to work on an idea, Joe will pick it up and rework it. For 'Shame', I only had a few parts and Joe had a song he couldn't finish. We just put them together. Sometimes, it's made of bits and pieces.

For 'Rhythm Of Romance', the author went in studio hoping I'd tell him what I thought of it, and in fact, I didn't like it very much. I sat down on the piano, suggested some improvement, and we had a brand new piece!

Joe: Producing-wise, if the keyboard part has rhythm to it, we'll put together a roll, bass drum and piano to see how it sounds. But generally speaking, with never begin a song with a definite bar pattern; it the melody that counts.

You've just talked about 'Shame'. there is a great voice in there, a very low voice that sounds like a 'varyspeed'.

Joe: Not at all. It's Kevin Dorsey's voice, and it hasn't been worked on.

I see that Mark Craney is playing again with you. His health must have improved.

Gino: Yes. He played on 'The Time Of Day' and a couple of other songs on the album. He also worked on the first album of a Scandinavian band we produced.

Joe: He really made a miraculous recovery!

Gino: For that piece we recorded a year ago, Mark came to the studio on a wheelchair and with his crutches. He could barely move, but sat behind drum pads linked to a computer. He almost couldn't hold a stick with his right hand, but his left hand was OK. We overdubbed a lot, his ideas were good as usual and he gained confidence. Now he's playing real drums five nights a week in clubs. I don't think he'll tour with us because it's very tiring, but maybe in a year or two. He called me the other day after he learned that we were auditioning drummers for the tour and he was a little upset that we didn't call him!

How do you record the synths? Mono, stereo, with lots of effects? There is such a wide variety of sounds!

Gino: Since we have a very "ochestral" and wide sound, we have to record in stereo, which enhances the textures.

Joe: We also add digital effects, echoes, delays reverbs and "spacial expanders".

Jimmy Haslip has told me of an album on which he played that was never released. What about it? Will you ever release it?

Gino: It's here on a shelf somewhere (laughs). This is an unavoidable thing in an artist's career. I don't think I'll release it, even if it were remixed. However, it's quite probable that I might use some of the songe. It was done around 1982-1983, but our recording techniques have changed so much since then that it wouldn't hold its own.

Both of you do some programming. Do you start from scratch or do you change already existing sounds?

Gino: It depends. We sometimes make our own samples. For example, if we like the sound pf a snare drum for a song, we might change its tons or add something to make it clearer. We never keep a rough sound.

On "Shame", the snare comes from a lower end Yamaha BAR to which we added a digital sample to make it sound bigger. We also added some real snare drum vibrations. This way, we can keep the medium notes and have a fatter sound on the highs.

Gino, you've launched the career of many great musicians over the years: Jay Graydon in 1975, Carlos Rios in 1978, Mike Miller and Vinnie Colaiuta in 1981. Do you get the impression that you are some kind of a talent scout?

Gino: (Laughs) Maybe we are. It's true that a lot of people seem to have gained notoriety after playing on our albums, and I'm really happy for them. Too bad for me they ask for a better pay!!! We stay real close though. When I asked Mike Miller to go on tour with us, he accepted right away and cancelled all his other gigs. When Maxayne Lewis, our backup singer works with other people, she asks for a certain rate, and for at least three hours. But when she's with us, she stays 3-4 hours and tells me: "Pay me what you want". It must come from the way we work with our musicians.

What's happening with your brother Ross? Why isn't he on this album? It looks as if he's very much in demand as a songwriter isn't he?

Gino: We realized we didn't need to be three. Also Ross has his own studio and production company. Joe and I spend so much time in studio trying new stuff that we may be too slow for Ross.

Will you keep producing other acts?

Gino: Absolutely. The first new act was the Scandinavian band I mentionned earlier. I think people will like their music. It's progressive pop sung by two guys, pretty much in the spirit of Tears For Fears, and produced by our people. Medley Records, a label from over there, is helping them.

You've made a major change in your songwriting, by going more towards a pop and FM sound Aren't you afraid to lose your old fans? Is this a personal decision or something coming from the record company?

Gino: It's really a personal choice. It's a lot of fun! But I think the next album will be very different. I don't think my fans will be bothered by the new songs, but who's to say? I'll find out at the end of the tour; if people boo me, I'll know what I'll have to do. However, I think my pop songs are very different from what you can hear on radio today.

Can you tell us about the equipment you use in studio?

Joe: Let's see... It's very conventional: DX7, D50, Kawai, Kurzweill, Prophet, Moog, Akai samplers. We have Lexicon 480, Yamaha, and Alesis. Alesis especially is excellent!

Do you record everything in digital or do you still use analog?

Joe: On the last album, the 'orchestration' was done live by computer, but we used an analog 'console' for the vocals and guitar. We mixed in ½ inch analog using Dolby SR. I also used DAT, but I prefer the sound of the half inch with Dolby SR. It adds a lot of musicality, and you get rid of the extremes. When you use a lot of digital, the sound becomes very rough; analog smoothens it up. A lot of people do that, like Bruce Swedien who records for Quincy Jones and Michael Jackson. He records all drum parts on analog, then transfers them on digital to get a little compressionand a slightly lower sound. I think the best way to record is by using a potpourri of different techniques, where you record some instruments on digital and others on digital.

Gino, I often heard people say that you are a frustrated opera singer! How do you respond to that?

Gino: (Laughs) I don't know! First, I don't feel frustrated at all, but I think I understand what they mean...

Will you go back to acoustic instruments in the future?

Gino: I believe so, simply due to the fact that if you love music, you get tired of always doing the same thing. Going from one thing to another brings more pleasure out of your own work. I don't know yet where I'll go. For the moment, we concentrate on getting ready for this tour. This is the first time we'll play in Europe.

Translated from French by Claude Champagne